Creative cast: Music industry roles – Gareth Hudson
In this episode, Creative Arts Curriculum Advisor John Gill is joined by Gareth Hudson to explore what it means to be a producer in the music industry. Gareth shares insights from his journey as a musician, composer, teacher, and record producer, including how he began recording music for himself and others. Gareth reflects on how these experiences and his passion for the craft ultimately led him to pursue music production as a full-time career.
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Transcript
The following podcast is brought to you by the Creative Arts team
Speaker:from Secondary Curriculum, the Curriculum Directorate of the New
Speaker:South Wales Department of Education.
Speaker:The Creative Arts Curriculum team recognises the Ongoing Custodians of
Speaker:the lands and waterways where we work and live here on Darug country and on
Speaker:all the lands on which you are listening today, we pay respects to Elders past
Speaker:and present as ongoing teachers of knowledge, songlines and stories.
Speaker:We strive to ensure every Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander learner
Speaker:in New South Wales achieves their potential through education.
Speaker:Welcome to Creative Cast, the official podcast of the New South Wales
Speaker:Department of Education's Creative Arts Secondary Curriculum team.
Speaker:My name is John Gill, and I'm a Creative Arts Curriculum advisor
Speaker:and Music Subject Matter Expert.
Speaker:Today I am chatting with Gareth Hudson from Hazy Cosmic Jive Recording Studios
Speaker:of which Gareth owns and manages.
Speaker:Gareth has established a remarkable career as a musician, composer,
Speaker:teacher and record producer.
Speaker:He'll be sharing insights from his work as a producer within the music industry.
Speaker:Thanks so much for joining me for today's podcast Gareth.
Speaker:Can you tell me a little about yourself and how you got
Speaker:started in the music industry?
Speaker:Well thanks for the introduction John.
Speaker:As you mentioned, I am a full-time musician and record producer.
Speaker:I got started like everyone else I suppose just the love of music,
Speaker:playing gigs, learning an instrument.
Speaker:I was very lucky, so my parents were playing a lot of music in the
Speaker:house and encouraged the music.
Speaker:I really sort of got pushed by my high school music teacher actually.
Speaker:I saw what he was doing, playing gigs and teaching and recording, putting out
Speaker:music and I was really inspired by that.
Speaker:And he encouraged me, you know, I could have a career in music, so he
Speaker:actually got me my first gig with some of his mates playing in bands.
Speaker:So, it was really an organic way that I got into the industry and that's
Speaker:just really the love of music and you know, practicing an instrument and
Speaker:getting really good at it that got me that opportunity for gigs and you know,
Speaker:it's just an addiction and isn't it?
Speaker:With music and recording side of things I've always done
Speaker:since I've been a little boy.
Speaker:Basically, had a tape recorder in my bedroom that I would record and I had
Speaker:a little microphone, so I was always dabbling in that side of things but
Speaker:getting into the industry was from a live way of doing it, performance.
Speaker:And you know, the recording getting into that side of things came later
Speaker:after recording my own music for my own bands and things, and then
Speaker:organically grew again into just producing other people's music and stuff.
Speaker:So, yeah, it was definitely focused on that live performance and just
Speaker:getting really good at music, learning an instrument and then getting
Speaker:and making connections that way.
Speaker:That's great.
Speaker:Those passions were really sparked at high school too, and the influence
Speaker:that your teacher had on you and the opportunities that you took
Speaker:while you were at school there.
Speaker:It certainly led you on a great start to follow that path.
Speaker:I mean back then the recording side of things was very different.
Speaker:It was not on the computer.
Speaker:It was on a 4 track tape recorder, which was a little desk,
Speaker:probably the size of a laptop.
Speaker:Well, a little bit bigger than a laptop and our high school music
Speaker:teacher would let me and my friend, who I play in the band with take that
Speaker:4 track recorder home every weekend.
Speaker:So, that was where I sort of learned how to, how to record in my bedroom
Speaker:basically, which is what the kids are doing today really on their laptops.
Speaker:So, not every child had been exposed to have that, you know that not every
Speaker:kid at school would've been able to take a 4 track record a home, but I
Speaker:was very lucky with my high school music teacher to let me borrow that.
Speaker:Can you briefly describe your role and what interested you in this career path?
Speaker:As I said, I loved recording from a very early age.
Speaker:I mean I was pretty cheeky as well.
Speaker:I had an input from my keyboard, so I'd record myself practicing and play it
Speaker:back and then go and do something else, so my parents thought I was practicing.
Speaker:Don't do that out there kids, but I got into record production again organically.
Speaker:I was recording all my own stuff and I think the first paid gig I got was
Speaker:with another member of a band that I had recorded the drummer in that band.
Speaker:Then had another side project with, with another band.
Speaker:So, I got the gig recording their band, so that was probably my first paid gig.
Speaker:And so another band, here's what the work that I did with this other band,
Speaker:and it really just grew like that.
Speaker:And at the same time that wasn't like a full-time thing then,
Speaker:that was just a side hustle.
Speaker:Like I was still doing my performance, my gigs.
Speaker:Well, I mean all the way through uni i'd been recording my own
Speaker:stuff, but I had my music degree.
Speaker:I'd gone to university and studied a Bachelor of Music.
Speaker:So, when I was out working, it was teaching privately, it was gigging,
Speaker:it was everything that goes with songwriting, composing, all that stuff.
Speaker:So, it wasn't just the record production.
Speaker:That's really only been the last sort of 5 or 6 years that I've been
Speaker:able to get full time into that.
Speaker:So, it's taken me, you know, 25 years to get to that point.
Speaker:Producing records that I can really just do it full time and of course,
Speaker:purchasing gear for the studio.
Speaker:It's been a, you know, since I was 15 years old, been collecting
Speaker:gear and instruments and stuff.
Speaker:So, it really takes a long time to get to that role of being a record producer.
Speaker:I think back in the day, they could go into a studio and you know, be the coffee
Speaker:person that could make the coffee and tea and bring it to the record producer,
Speaker:and you could work your way up from serving coffee to then working the tape
Speaker:machine to being assistant engineer.
Speaker:I don't know whether that exists these days.
Speaker:I think it's more you've just got to get in and produce records and
Speaker:do your own stuff and produce other people's music to get into it that way.
Speaker:I think that's the best way.
Speaker:That experience gathered along the way, certainly would help to really
Speaker:hone and refine your understanding of what's needed in the role as well.
Speaker:100%
Speaker:Can you tell me what role does technology play in modern music production?
Speaker:It's everything because I'm running everything digitally.
Speaker:I do have analogue gear, I've got tape machines and things.
Speaker:But running a DAW, digital audio workstation.
Speaker:I mean there's so much involved with that these days.
Speaker:You know, the technology with just being able to take a vocal and edit
Speaker:a vocal, you know, like tune a vocal or make a vocal more in time or
Speaker:correct the timing of a drum kit or you know, you can really shape with
Speaker:technology this whole sound of a band.
Speaker:You can almost not be very good at playing, and you can make the band
Speaker:sound really good with technology, with computers and a digital audio workstation.
Speaker:However, that's not what we do.
Speaker:We record the bands and performers who have worked to get to a point where they
Speaker:want to come into the studio and record.
Speaker:But I mean, even technology with regards to like sharing stuff, it's
Speaker:really changed since I started.
Speaker:When I first started producing, at the end of the session you'd
Speaker:sit around and you'd burn a cd.
Speaker:I think before that it was probably DAT tapes or whatever it was,
Speaker:but when I started you'd burn the client the cd and they'd go to the
Speaker:car and they'd put in their car and test it out, see if it worked.
Speaker:Did the CD burn properly?
Speaker:These days it's one click of a mouse.
Speaker:You bounce the file, MP3, and it's the client's sitting in the studio
Speaker:listening on their phone, 'Oh, the bass is too soft.' And I say, 'Go away.
Speaker:Listen properly.
Speaker:Don't listen to the bass on your phone.' But I mean, being able to
Speaker:share massive projects, for example with Chloe Gill, the local artist
Speaker:that I'm working with at the moment.
Speaker:I can give her the files and she can go home on her laptop and work
Speaker:on things in between sessions.
Speaker:So, you know, we can share files easily.
Speaker:You know, back in the day with the tape machine, there's no way a client could
Speaker:go work on and record things at home.
Speaker:So, in that sense, it's very handy to be able to share files like that.
Speaker:And then you get into the AI aspect of things, there are things that
Speaker:really do speed up the process.
Speaker:I'm not into the creative use of AI for things like lyrics or coming up with chord
Speaker:progressions because that's the fun bit.
Speaker:Like, that's what we want to do but things like if you've got a
Speaker:click in a vocal or something and it's your mics are so sensitive.
Speaker:It's very easy these days to be able to get rid of something like
Speaker:a little click or a pop in a vocal.
Speaker:There's AI software plugins that you can get for your DAW, your digital audio
Speaker:workstation, to make that job very easy.
Speaker:Whereas back in the day, you'd have to get in and edit the WAV file
Speaker:and nudge out just that moment.
Speaker:It might take you two or three hours to do that, whereas it takes like 10 seconds
Speaker:now to be able to remove things like that.
Speaker:So, there are useful tools, things like, you know, auto-tune.
Speaker:If you're into that, to speed up the process of getting a vocal.
Speaker:You might have the perfect vocal take, but you've got one note
Speaker:that's slightly out of tune.
Speaker:So these days you can go and just bump that note up and down because
Speaker:you might have delivered the perfect performance, but it's just a little bit
Speaker:out of tune so you can bump that up.
Speaker:Back in the day, very hard to do that.
Speaker:You have to redo the vocal.
Speaker:We might spend a whole day on the vocal track.
Speaker:We don't do that now.
Speaker:Can you tell me, in what ways do producers collaborate with
Speaker:artists and sound producers?
Speaker:So, every single project is different, the collaborative approach and the amount
Speaker:of input that I have as a producer.
Speaker:Because some bands come in and they've rehearsed it and I'm really
Speaker:just in an engineering kind of role.
Speaker:So there might be bands like that that come in and it's already done, like the
Speaker:arranging and producing side of things.
Speaker:But then I might have a client who doesn't play very much guitar, but writes really
Speaker:good lyrics and melodies and things that needs me to then flesh out all the parts.
Speaker:They need me to come up with a drum part or the bass guitar, and piano
Speaker:and build the whole recording around their idea of just lyrics and melody.
Speaker:So, it really does differ from project to project and collaboratively I've got to be
Speaker:very sensitive of that because I need, I don't want to push too much if someone's
Speaker:really got an idea for a particular sound.
Speaker:I can gauge pretty quickly now of how much input I should have or whether I should
Speaker:just be making sure that the recording sounds the best as a recording engineer
Speaker:and making sure the mics are in the right places and all that sort of stuff so that
Speaker:then they can just get what they imagine in their heads onto their recording.
Speaker:It's certainly interesting hearing how you support that person who
Speaker:comes in with just one layer of sound and how you build that up.
Speaker:Can you tell me, how does a music producer shape the sound and style of a recording?
Speaker:Well, we're there the whole way from the guide track.
Speaker:Unless the artist done the guide track at home, so a guide track, I should
Speaker:say, is something that you record first.
Speaker:So, it might just be the bare bones of the song.
Speaker:So, a singer songwriter, they've written their song.
Speaker:They come in, we set up.
Speaker:We usually do everything to a click track and so the singer performs the song
Speaker:to the click track and then we nut out the arrangement from that in the DAW.
Speaker:So, everything from that pre-production, that guide track through to the final and
Speaker:I do master a lot of my recordings now.
Speaker:Sometimes I send it off to a mastering engineer.
Speaker:But everything from that first stage through to mastering and then going
Speaker:out to Spotify and digital platforms.
Speaker:I basically have a say in and I can shape.
Speaker:So, that might come down to where I place the mic for the first acoustic
Speaker:guitar recording, so that's gonna change the whole colour of the recording.
Speaker:I might put the mic at the back of the room, decide to creatively do that.
Speaker:Now, of course, the artist is gonna say, 'Well, something weird about that sound.
Speaker:The mic sounds like it's in the car park.' But, however, you know, they
Speaker:are making a choice and the artist is then feeding off my choice.
Speaker:I have a role of shaping the sound of the recording right from the initial
Speaker:stages, and that goes all the way through from the early stages of recording
Speaker:the bass instruments to then mixing.
Speaker:So I've got a creative choice of what reverb I might like, and
Speaker:of course, the artist has the choice at the end of the day.
Speaker:They can get the mix back and go, 'Oh, what's going on with that reverb?
Speaker:It sounds like I'm in a Cathedral.' They might not like that choice but
Speaker:if it gets through to the next stage then you are shaping the sound all
Speaker:the way through the recording process.
Speaker:It's a really clear partnership working through that, and obviously the artist
Speaker:putting that trust in your experience and understanding of how it's gonna
Speaker:sound in that final product, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah and if there's a new client then it sometimes takes a bit of time just to
Speaker:develop a language and like they sort of start to get used to what like a plate
Speaker:reverb sounds like, or you know, EQ or, you know, bringing/changing the colour
Speaker:of guitar sound, something like that.
Speaker:So, early on it might be the communication is a little slower but then as you
Speaker:develop a relationship with an artist then they sort of trust what you are
Speaker:doing and and can make creative choices in every aspect of the recording process.
Speaker:I guess relating to looking at creating a unique or new sound, or
Speaker:trying to replicate another artist or maybe borrowing sounds and ideas.
Speaker:Can you tell me how do producers balance creativity with technical
Speaker:and ethical considerations?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean we do often in the studio we'll have reference tracks.
Speaker:So, an artist might say, 'Look, I really love the drums on this recording'.
Speaker:But you would never try and copy, like a progression or something.
Speaker:It might be, we like the, the sound of that drum tom or something like that.
Speaker:We're trying to achieve that in the recording process.
Speaker:But you know, you're never trying to copy a recording because obviously
Speaker:you'll get in a lot of trouble for doing that sort of thing.
Speaker:But I mean, the other thing is as a producer, you've got to be
Speaker:aware that the artist is actually living with that recording.
Speaker:After you pass it on, they've got to have a life of getting
Speaker:it out there to the listener.
Speaker:So, really I'm the luckiest guy in the world because I do all the creative
Speaker:stuff in the studio, and then the artist then does the hard stuff.
Speaker:They've got to go out and promote themselves.
Speaker:So yeah, that's really something that I'm conscious of, that it does
Speaker:have a life with me, and then it has a life with the artist who's
Speaker:gonna go and perform it and sell it.
Speaker:Amazing to hear all those aspects of the work and how you ended up
Speaker:being in this role and your journey as well as the ones that you are
Speaker:providing and shaping the artists with.
Speaker:So, thanks so much for coming to talk today Gareth, I
Speaker:really appreciate your time.
Speaker:Absolute pleasure mate.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:This podcast was brought to you by the Creative Arts team from
Speaker:Secondary Curriculum, the Curriculum Directorate of the New South
Speaker:Wales Department of Education.
Speaker:Get involved in the conversation by joining our statewide staff
Speaker:room through the link in the show notes or email Jane McDavitt at
Speaker:creativearts7-12@det.nsw.edu.au.
Speaker:The music for this podcast was composed by Creative Arts advisor, Alex Manton.
